#CMAskTheJudge Episode 130: Counter Season

Welcome to Episode 130 of Cardmarket's AskTheJudge series. Each episode includes a video that poses a question regarding the rules of Magic. Watch the video, comment with your answer, and then check your work below. This week's question is about counters and accounting for replacement effects.

Welcome to #CMAskTheJudge—and to my 100th video! This time we want to know how Doubling Season and Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider affect planeswalkers. Comment on our video (or below) with your answer and then check whether you got it right or wrong!

doubling season vorinclex

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PhilXan(13.06.2021 15:10)

I like how this question is low-key just about accurately reading the cards and not just assuming you know what they do. Gotta admit it caught me off-guard.

Good one :)

CyberDevil(11.06.2021 16:37)

Funny, if an opponent were to put loyalty counters on one of our planeswalkers, the amount would be unmodified if we control both (except for rounding errors) :D
Interesting that they work differently in that way, caring either about the controler or the player giving the counters.

amrtina(11.06.2021 18:17)

@CyberDevil, only Vorinclex cares about who puts counters on something. Also, even if the effects of Vorinclex and doubling season cancel each other out, the amount is still modified, in case some other effect cares about modified events.
Rounding down part of Vorinclex' ability is also relevant, as the affected player chooses in which order replacement effects are applied. Example - you have both of them, and the opponent tries to put a -1/-1 counter on your creature. If you apply Vorinclex first, it's rounded down to 0 and doubling season doubles that 0. If you apply DS first, it's 2 counters and Vorinclex changes it to one.
DS also doesn't care about the counters that effects try to put on players, so your poison counters etc aren't affected

Reya1987(11.06.2021 10:52)

Doubling Season will modify the number of counters you put on a Planeswalker only when an "effect" put counters on it. As a PW enters the battlefield, the fact to put counter on it, it's described as an "effect". So with Doubling Season, all your PWs will enter the battlefield with double the loyalty counters. But Doubling Season does not change the number of Loyalty counters you put on PWs you control when you activate their loyalty abilities because it's part of a "cost", not an effect.

For Vorinclex is more simple because it does not care how counters are added, he always double the number of counters you put on your PWs! So Vorinclex will basicaly double the number of counters of your PWs when they enter battlefield and double the counters you put on them when you activate loyalty abilities!

And if you control both Season and Vorinclex, your PWs will enter battlefield with 4 times their loyalty counters! And their loyalty counters will be doubled when activate a loyalty ability.

amrtina(11.06.2021 12:13)

Reya1987, nicely said!

fratrus(14.06.2021 16:16)

Reya1987, I'm a bit confused as it should vorinclex effect doubled as you have season when you activate pw? Double counters with vorinclex and double vorinclex effect with season, no ?

amrtina(14.06.2021 17:17)

@fratrus, in case when you have both, vorinclex applies first and doubles the number of counters. After that, Doubling Season applies and doubles the number you got, therefore the total score is 4x the original number of counters.

Reya1987(14.06.2021 18:14)

Putting loyalty counters on a PW as it enters the battlefield, is a « effect ». Adding or removing loyalty counters when you activate a PW activate ability, is a « cost ». Doubling season doubles the counters you get with an « effect ». Vorinclex doubles everything: « effect », « cost », etc. You must dissociate « effect » and « cost ».

amrtina(14.06.2021 19:50)

When you have both and vorinclex doubles the counters from the cost, it's an effect (vorinclex's replacement effect) and doubling season makes it 4x. If there's only doubling season, it doesn't react and you get counters x1.
I assume that's the source of confusion here

Reya1987(14.06.2021 20:18)

Amrtina Thanks for the explanation, more easy to understand now.